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15 Comments

  1. 1

    Art

    I had a manager in Cabo once who admitted he had never closed a deal in his life; got his management shot through a close friend who had also never closed a deal in his life either – and he (his friend) got his PD shot through, I think ‘family’.

    But their theory and our sales manager preached to us closers all the time that:

    If I was a closer I would lie through my teeth and tell the Googans anything and everything to get a deal. Screw them all!

  2. 2

    Casey Owens

    I have just read your article dated June 20, 2014 and I wanted to comment on the statement that you made in regards to my time working with Daniel Chavez and the Mayan Palace.

    I started working for the Mayan in 1983 and then I left of my own accord Sept 28, 2005. At the time when I left, the program I was in charge of was pure and the members enjoyed the product and embraced the program.

    You stated in your article “like the Casey Owens debacle he created and left for you to clean up not that long ago.” I would like to address a couple of inaccuracies in that statement. First, as I mentioned I left the Mayan Palace Sept 28 2005. You stated ‘not that long ago”, suggesting that the current state of affairs somehow falls on my shoulders. Well, it has been 8 years, 8 months and 23 days, almost 9 years since I have been at the Mayan Palace. So ‘not that long ago’ seems to be incorrect as you know 9 years in this business, is a lifetime.

    Second, the ‘debacle’ you stated that I left for Daniel to clean up was certainly not the case. When I left, the marketing and sales were functioning at an all time high. Up to Sept 28, 2005 I personally returned members money that were not happy with the program. Since my departure the program has changed, the methods have changed and I agree 100% with you that the current direction of the industry needs to change.

    Please feel free to contact me as I welcome the opportunity to discuss with you the past, present and of course the future of the Vacation Ownership and how we can restore the purity of an idea that once was.

    Casey Owens

  3. 3

    Richard Danger

    I just wanted to respond to Casey Owens. I worked for him at the Mayan and I was there after he left. I know for a fact that management made some very big changes after Casey left that took the program on a downward spiral. Spin it however you ‘scoopers’ want to, but the problem lies with the current management who only cared about money and nothing about the members. When I was working with Casey he was always concerned about the members and if they wanted their money back, he gave it to them. Times were good with Casey at the Mayan, I am sure we will not see times like that again. If he is doing something new, I hope he remembers all of us hard working people that worked with him and gives us a job, as the industry is falling flat on its ass and nobody has a solution.

    Richard Danger – Puerto Vallarta

  4. 4

    Mark

    Interesting perspectives.

    I worked at Mayan when Owens was running the deal and if memory serves me correctly they had a huge and well orchestrated phony table table buy back scheme.

    It was so good that it spread like wild fire all over Mexico to other developers and beyond.

    At the Mayan when the rep had an existing owner who wanted to purchase at Mayan but not until the got get rid of their other timeshares a manager was called over to the table and the rep explained the situation to the manager.

    The manager would ask the owners if he could unload their timeshare would they buy the Mayan today.

    The answer was almost always a yes.

    Then the manager would take out a walkie talkie and call the office, explain what type of inventory the owners needed to unload to the person on the other end and low and behold within minutes the office would call back and say something like “Well, it is a white week but I struggled and we can get $7,500 dollars for it….”

    The tour would be listening to the conversation over the walkie talkie because the speaker volume was turned way up so for them it all seemed legit; and the deals went down left and right.

    Of course, at least when I was there, the person from the office was the contracts gal and there were no buyers.

    The manager would then lay in the drop and the deal was done.

    The new owners bought thinking they unloaded their other timeshares but when they got back home and as time went buy they started getting their AMF’s for their other weeks and now the Mayan.

    And then there was all the rental and resale investment heat being pitched.

    I loved the resort and working there but after a few months I found out what they were really doing so I moved on.

  5. 5

    30 Year T/S Vet

    Mexico as well as much of Europe STILL operates as if it were the Wile West of the 80s and 90s. A blight on ALL of us that work hard to sell it clean and make a good living for our families…

  6. 6

    Larry

    Amen 30 Year T/S Vet!

    And this BS has been going on forever. It was even that way in the good old USA before licensing requirements of the sales people became required.

    I have a friend working over in Thailand and I’m told it is as hot, heavy and underhanded like it is in Mexico.

  7. 7

    Van_The_Man

    Ah, Mayan Palace. I worked there in the late 80’s and early 90’s (before the Resorts in Vallarta, before Acapulco, or any of the other Chavez properties and again–briefly–in the late 90’s and early 2000.

    Scoops right, Mayan Palace does have great Resorts–and, then at least, a great program. “2 for 1″, no M.F. if you didn’t use your “bonus” Week (s)–and a cap on M.F.’s tied the the CPI. Huge selling points that enabled me to quite well.

    And then came the company-wide “No Heat, No Eat” mind set and the phony Table Buy-Back scam Mark describes in detail. And, although Casey expresses that he “personally” refunded customer’s money, the Mayan had huge ROR levels and attempts to ROR–not to mention defaults on payments as protest–when people discovered they’d been ripped off, lied to and flat-out scammed.

    The shame is/was that the Mayan did have–and now has–beautiful Resorts and what was a first class owner-friendly program as described above.

    The issue–as Scoop bemoans–is that the gunslinger-heat merchant-con artist-big ego-cowboys hit town and destroyed the good will and the satisfaction that the Mayan Palaces’ Resorts and program provided.

    If you don’t believe it, go to pissedconsumer.com (especially) or some of the other blogs and count the irate comments. Go get your calculator first, so you can add them up.

    Bottom line is that Timeshare, with the Resorts available and with a program structured properly for the satisfaction of owners, can be sold /purchased with both the Developer / Salesperson / Customer being happy and benefitting greatly.

    Until the shysters–who could sell it straight but aren’t happy unless they kink the deal a little bit first so they feel they’ve done their job–get involved.

  8. 8

    A.W.

    In Owen’s response that he posted here he was right about one thing.

    When I left, the marketing and sales were functioning at an all time high.

    From what I heard that was true but not because they were pitching it clean.

    And I don’t know about his claim to have returned any money to owners; more likely by the end of his reign the developer was charging back Casey’s marketing company left and right for all the complaints.

    I also heard that he kept all the liners and closers reserve funds too.

    And this notion he posted about “how we can restore the purity of an idea that once was” just makes me, too, LMAO and yet want to vomit!

  9. 9

    Sally

    I take the approach that President Harry Truman took as the 33rd President of the United States:

    “The Buck Stops Here”

    Developers should hold to that standard with the ultimate responsibility of making sure all their representatives sell without lies.

  10. 10

    Van_The_Man

    Sally June,

    Not to worry. ARDA and it’s illustrious factotum Howard Nusbaum has this handled.

    ARDA allows every Resort to merely cough up some bucks and receive at breakneck speed (well, as soon as the check clears) a large and beautifully engraved Plaque that can be prominently displayed and is labeled as ARDA’s “Code Of Ethics”.

    This Plaque–unbeknownst to most people–has been treated with an invisible “Heat Shield” that keeps it from warping from all the heat emanating from the mouths of Salespeople.

    Moreover, the “deluxe” version of the Plaque (for just a few dollars more) is also prominently labeled as ARDA’s “Code Of Ethics”–but this version must be mounted on the wall several inches higher so the invisible “Hip Waders” attached to the bottom the the Plaque doesn’t drag on the ground.

    The Hip Waders are an option for those Resorts that don’t want the Plaque–or ARDA’s reputation–tarnished when the lies, misrepresentations, and “looping” get’s too deep on the Sales Floor.

    “Looping” for those people who haven’t been around Timeshare Salespeople very long, is not lying exactly. It’s a milder form of misrepresentation that is essentially giving a presentation and communicating to the “tour” something that isn’t real, factual–or even true. Looping is best understood by understanding of this phrase: “Well, gee, if it isn’t true I’ll just pretend it could be”

    This is ARDA’s solution to Resorts “pitching heat”. I hope this clears things up for you. Sleep well. ARDA’s got things covered.

    VTM

  11. 11

    Don

    Thanks for clearing cleaning that up VTM.

    I don’t know about Sally but I sure feel much better and will sleep like a kitten tonight.

  12. 12

    Taco Bob

    I, Taco Bob, would like to see the whole bunch of cheats and liars selling timeshare and full ownership run out of Mexico. The honest ones can stay!

    Such a beautiful place, wonderful people, food and fantastic beaches and oceans.

    I have been here for many years, been all over the place and one time I was talked into selling timeshares but WOW – unbelievable the things I heard so I didn’t last long.

    Viva Mexico!

  13. 13

    Mel

    The heat merchants everyone’s talking about are ill.

    It’s like, for whatever reason, if a gold refiner gave them a bunch of 1 ounce of pure gold bars to sell and the price authorized to sell was below spot by 30% they’d still need to heat up the deal.

    Never did understand why they are like that when selling something that is tangible and that actually performs as designed.

    That’s why I say they are bunch of sick puppies (ill).

  14. 14

    cletus c clemons

    Attaboy George!!!! EXPLOIT, EXPLOIT, & EXPLOIT. Need to get em in the US too not just Mexico. The big name players and the generic ones too. Yea!!!! (*^*) MY HERO—-LOL.

  15. 15

    u.m.

    Casey Owens certainly likes to take the high road.

    But, it was still a scam.

    They were not giving a cent from their own pockets.

    What’s even more, when he left Mayan he went to open another company that sold time share in Cabo at the hotel that was then The Grand Baja, the company did not sell enough to pay their lavish expenses, and they just folded tents and skip the country. They didn’t even pay anybody that was working for them. Not salesman, opcs, not even the people at their offices.

    Not a cent, not to everybody that suddenly found themselves out on the street, without a job.

    They just closed the door, skip the hell away from Cabo (and Vallarta)… let things cool of… and opened again.

    Same scheme. Just change the company name, and legal representatives and all is well. They started selling Tau Resorts…. And when that fell trough…. (They didn’t even build this time)… Just went away, again.

    Cleanse and repeat.

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